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jennyfreckles
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 12th, 2007 08:18 pm |
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Hi
In your message (Friday 5 October) you say the traffic problem is here now (yes, it is!) and you ask what will happen when the traffic comes to a total standstill. Well, perhaps then people will decide to walk or cycle or use the bus or the train. People hate sitting in traffic jams, so the more jams there are, the better perhaps?
I strongly suspect that much of the traffic round here comes from people who are not actually travelling very far. We use cars because it's convenient and because we've not tried anything else and because we haven't thought about how to organise ourselves differently and because we like to keep away from people we don't know, in our own little car-spaces.
I don't actually have a car, mainly because I can't afford to run one. (Promise I'm not smug about it - I did have one once.) I do get the occasional lift with friends and I do sometimes use taxis, so I know how convenient four wheels are. But it's surprisingly easy to get around without a car in this area and could be even better if the powers-that-be decided to invest more in public tranport.
It doesn't sound to me like the proposed bypass will provide any kind of answer to the problem and will only create lots more problems. We really do have to look for better solutions. I don't think the complete answer will arise locally. It will only come from people deciding that we really do have to approach Life differently. The planet is groaning. (Not just Shipley).
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podibot
Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 11:08 am |
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;) Hi there, It was me, caught again in Sunny Saltaire,
the more you look into the by-pass the more it frightens you,
in the t&a last week there was an article on building 2000 homes in the Airedale valley, where are their cars going?.
the trouble with politicians they know more than they tell you, and tell a different story to different meetings
:typing tuesday 5.30 at the uni are you going? another side to the story of cars and fossil fuels
Peter, don`t let them wear you down.
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pamelaareynolds
Administrator
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Posted: Sun Oct 7th, 2007 07:22 am |
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Hi Poddy
There's more information and links to documents on the Saltaire Village Society website - here's the link to the by-pass pages.
http://www.saltairevillagesociety.com/bypass/index.html
We saw you having a coffee al fresco on sunny Gordon Terrace yesterday! (I think it was you).
Last edited on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 04:36 pm by Webmaster
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podibot
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 5th, 2007 02:17 pm |
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;) Hi there, I was at the meeting, I saw you on the end of the row.
they talked like the problem will happen if we do not get a by-pass,
the problem is here now and in the years it will take to get a by-pass according to the mp, I think the traffic will come to a total stand still.
:typing what happens then?
wot a lovely day though today is.
peter
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pamelaareynolds
Administrator
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2007 09:20 am |
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I responded to this invitation by the Saltaire Village Society: What does our MP think of plans for a bypass through Saltaire? Come along and find out at an open meeting with MP Philip Davies on September 24th 2007 7.30pm at Victoria Hall.
Just a bit of background first… Bradford Council is to spend money on feasibility studies to establish whether it’s possible to build a combined road and tunnel link that would run from the western edge of Saltaire through to the Canal Road area on the eastern side of Shipley town centre. It could be either single carriageway or dual carriageway, but officers are focusing mainly on a single carriageway option that would cost £139m (including the Shipley Eastern Relief Road and improvements to Canal Road).
Currently, Bingley relief road carries around 40,000 vehicles through Saltaire daily. A single carriageway would carry 10,000 vehicles daily. Traffic levels are increasing year on year by 1-2%, so by the time the bypass is built it’s likely that Saltaire could end up with two busy roads rather than one.
Saltaire Village Society believes the public money to be spent on the feasibility study would be better spent on long-term sustainable solutions such as ambitious bus and rail services, cycle networks, car clubs and car-sharing schemes, traffic calming projects, 20 mph residential zones and safer routes to school, and by developing a properly resourced Council Travel Plan.
In a nutshell, the meeting on 24 September between local citizens and Philip Davies, Conservative MP for Shipley, established that he does believe that public money would be better spent on long-term sustainable solutions.
Philip Davies made it clear that his credo was “individual freedom” which is a sound bite that sounds good but is pretty meaningless. What is the definition of “individual freedom” and how is it measured? I understood his answers and explanations as this: there are cars on the road causing congestion which is a problem to be solved. This problem will grow because people prosper, people aspire, people want cars and so we need more roads and that’s the way of the world. Philip Davies stated he understood that people have different philosophies and stand points and that people are entitled to disagree with his philosophy and can express that disagreement at election time.
How do I feel about that? I’m not impressed on so many levels. Firstly, fuel is finite and there’s global warming – these are facts, not philosophies. To mitigate the most devastating effects of global warming, people are required to moderate their behaviour by reducing their carbon footprint. The credo of Philip Davies - individual freedom, aspiration, I want therefore I must have, is selfish and intellectually barren. There are people on this planet who aspire to having a bit of food to eat; aspire to survive the day without injury or death; aspire to have the smallest medical assistance in crisis. The decisions made by governments impact on people (animals, creatures), who have to deal with the changes and trauma caused by those decisions. There are many examples – a couple of obvious ones are global warming and Iraq. Great examples of forward planning? Money well spent? A safer, better world? Effective strategies? Desired results?
Note also, the Conservatives have rebranded their party with the icon of an oak tree, imbued with all its subliminal messages of Greenness. It’s difficult to measure the sincerity of this exercise, but I didn’t get the impression that Greenness means much to Philip Davies. Where does the planet or little Saltaire feature on Philip Davies’ scale of importance if “prosperity,” “aspiration” (other difficult concepts to measure) and “individual freedom” is at the top of his scale? This is political comment because the issues are political. I can tell you that I used to vote Labour – but the decision to attack Iraq cured me of that. Conservative is not an option for me either. I am Green in my politics. I hate recycling but I do it and I keep modifying my behaviour to reduce our carbon footprint. I respect the Green party for the insight it provides on the condition of our planet. I respect the Lib Dems for objecting to Iraq. Anyway - enough of the editorial – here’s what was said as far as I could hear (and paraphrase) and until I left the meeting.
Philip Davies:
- In repeated surveys of local opinion, the top issue is always traffic congestion at Saltaire roundabout.
- In January, Bradford Council committed £1.3 million to a scheme which will improve traffic flow, which will be introduced in 2008.
- There needs to be a longer term solution so there will be a feasibility study for a proposed by-pass.
- Before the Bingley relief road was built, local people stated that it would increase the volume of traffic and add to congestion problems. They were correct.
- The Bingley relief road would have linked up with Canal Road, if the project hadn’t been limited by funding.
- Philip Davies is not against bypasses per se.
- Any proposed bypass should not affect Saltaire World Heritage Site, and if it did, Philip Davies would not support it.
- Any bypass proposal should not damage Hirst Wood, and if it did, Philip Davies would not support it.
- Philip Davies would support something “workable”. He wanted to see what came out of the feasibility study and Bradford Council should not be criticized for trying to find a solution.
- Any bypass would not be constructed for “many, many years”.
- The projected cost for a bypass is between £120m - £130.
- The Regional Transport Board will decide the allocation of funding and funding is already allocated up to 2012.
Chrissie Freeth:
What would a feasibility study entail?
Philip Davies:
The feasibility study needs to demonstrate that the solution to road congestion would not damage Saltaire’s World Heritage status; would examine whether the proposed solution was possible from an engineering point of view; was in line with government guide lines on tunnels (governments recommend short not long tunnels for safety issues.)
Kevin Warnes, Councillor, Green Party:
Bradford Council’s preferred route is a single lane carriageway which would carry 10,000 vehicles per day, effectively removing only a quarter of road traffic, which means that traffic congestion remains. What about the issue of encouraging people not to use cars?
Philip Davies:
Dual carriageways are more expensive. If it was found that congestion remains, then the by-pass wouldn’t work and would be pointless.
Philip Davies is all for encouraging people away from cars but people want cars – they are aspirational. That’s the result of prosperity. Encouraging people to cycle will not ease congestion. Having more roads helps and gives more space, more supply.
Q. Name not heard
Government regulations state that if a tunnel is more than 500 metres long and carries 10,000 vehicles a day after 15 years then 2 tunnels are needed. Which means that the money spent on the feasibility study is wasted because it’s a non-starter.
Philip Davies:
Philip Davies was not an expert or an engineer and Bradford Council would employ experts because they think there is a feasible scheme and he takes their word on that.
Dave Shaw:
You (PD) state that it is essential that the by-pass doesn’t affect Saltaire’s World Heritage status. I would rather you express your concern that we meet the obligations of that site. Also, the designation of Saltaire as a World Heritage Site was taken at a national, not regional, level. It is an issue for the government at a national level, not for the Regional Transport Board.
Philip Davies:
World Heritage status is governed by UNESCO and any scheme proposed will have to be endorsed by UNESCO. Saltaire’s status and Saltaire as a World Heritage site is not mutually exclusive. I agree that the status may not be affected but the site can be damaged. UNESCO is robust and has defended buffer zones around World Heritage Sites, so any scheme that would damage a World Heritage Site would not be endorsed.
Chrissie Freeth:
Tunnels running beneath the village would cause vibration damage to structures.
Philip Davies
I’m not an expert. I don’t know. If your analysis is right then you have nothing to worry about. The scheme would not take place.
Dorothy Reid
There are too many cars on the road. Building new roads is a sticking plaster on a problem.
Philip Davies:
I disagree that more roads are a sticking plaster. Providing more roads will ease traffic flow. Increased prosperity means more cars. A study has shown that there are far fewer major roads over here than in France and Germany, taking into account that this country is smaller. We are not overloaded with roads.
Gillian Rose
GR expressed disappointment with the idea that the Conservative party did not feel that it could influence and change people’s behaviour and culture as far as car use was concerned when there were ecological issues to address.
Philip Davies:
I accept that people have different standpoints and philosophies. You have a choice at election time.
Joan Barton
Has anyone considered a park and ride scheme from Keighley to Bradford – public transport every 10 minutes following a circular route, a model which works well in York.
Philip Davies:
Buses get held up in congestion.
_______________________
And that’s when I left…
Last edited on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 07:23 pm by Webmaster
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